Applying an Improv Mindset to Golf - Gina Louise Phillips, Host, Producer, Writer, Actor and Golf Personality

Gina Louise Phillips 01:43

Colin, thank you for having me. Great intro. Wow, that had energy!

ModGolfPodcast 01:47

There we go. Well, I feed off your energy. You are infectious. I have a note right above my laptop here that says "slow down!" because when I get excited, I do talk a little too fast. My voice goes up a couple of octaves, I get going a little too fast. So we're going to align our chakras here, we'll light some candles and we'll just namaste the crap out of this thing today here.

Gina Louise Phillips 02:06

Okay, great. I love that. Yeah, let's do some meditation.

ModGolfPodcast 02:13

So Gina, to start off with, I'd love to ask this icebreaker question because we had a conversation about a week or so ago.

Gina Louise Phillips 02:16

Yeah.

ModGolfPodcast 02:18

So I know a little bit about you, but not too much.

Gina Louise Phillips 02:20

Mm-hmm.

ModGolfPodcast 02:20

So I always love to hear about someone's first golf experience ever. Can you tell us about that and the power of invitation? Who was that person in your life that invited you to pick up a golf club for the first time?

Gina Louise Phillips 02:33

It was at a family reunion. Every two years, family members from BC, Alberta, and Saskatchewan all get together and we always camp. It's always this hilarious beer drinking filled time at some crappy campground in the woods and then we find the most crappy local golf course to play at that's kind of been the tradition.

ModGolfPodcast 03:02

Love it.

Gina Louise Phillips 03:07

I must have been about 12 years old when I first picked up a golf club. And I thought it was unlike any other sport or activity I had tried. It felt very different, kind of unique, hard as hell. I was always interested in this culture around it, the etiquette, the even at the crappiest golf course courses that everyone knew what to do There was kind of this way of functioning at a golf course that I was like, oh, I love these subcultures.

I love it. I love going and pretending I know what I'm doing and pretending that I belong. and And it was kind of always this sort of iconic experience that I would get each time in my really crappy camping clothes. It just stands out to me as, I don't know, just this very family oriented, very ridiculous summer event.

ModGolfPodcast 04:01

Love that. Love that. Well, obviously from there, you got the bug and that then translated into playing even more golf. And I understand when I spoke to you previously and we laughed that we're both very average, relatable golfers. We're both mid to a little bit higher handicaps. You and I are not going to be making a living swinging a golf club anytime soon, but we both love the game and we're frustrated that we're involved in the golf industry, but we're not getting any better.

Gina Louise Phillips 04:19

No.

ModGolfPodcast 04:26

But hopefully we will eventually. So I take it you just you love the game.

Gina Louise Phillips 04:28

Yeah.

ModGolfPodcast 04:30

You don't play it professionally. But tell us about that next step.

Gina Louise Phillips 04:32

Mm-hmm.

ModGolfPodcast 04:34

Because my understanding, you grew up in Calgary. You have a background in communications. Then you moved to Toronto.

Gina Louise Phillips 04:38

Mm-hmm.

ModGolfPodcast 04:39

And I'm really intrigued by this, where then you went to study improv at Second City in Toronto.

Gina Louise Phillips 04:46

Mm-hmm.

ModGolfPodcast 04:46

So I have to start with that. So I want to hear your thoughts on the learnings, whether it's that collaboration, that spontaneity and the confidence that improv builds. I haven't been involved in that at all. I've taken one improv class. I'm not even going to pretend that I actually know much about it, but I was taught very early on that you don't dead end your partner. It's "yes and" not "no but".

So tell us about that. What have you learned in comedy and improv that then translates both over to entrepreneurship, because you certainly are an entrepreneur, and also to the way you approach golf.

Gina Louise Phillips 05:25

Improv is all about having nothing and creating something. And with having nothing you have to be okay that and you have to step into the void and see what happens next. And I think that's something that translates to so many aspects of life. We think we have control. We don't. We have no control. We can make decisions and then go confidently in that direction, thinking that we know what's next, but we don't know what's next.

And so with improv, it's kind of like working out at a gym. You're working that muscle of your brain that wants to hold back, wants to prepare, wants to protect. And you're instead, you're breaking that down and you're going, "what happens if I just trust it's going to work out or it won't work out?" And that will still produce something interesting. So there was this one scene where I tripped walking onto the stage, but then I just kept tripping throughout the scene.

I never would have done that in my early years. It took a long time for me to have the confidence to keep tripping on stage, right? Because our instinct is I tripped, oops. Okay, now let me stand in this really interesting way on stage. And now we start the scene, but that's not what improv is about. Improv is whatever you're bringing, go with that. Whatever happens first, that's the offer. That's the thing.

So you just bring yourself.

ModGolfPodcast 07:08

Yes.

Gina Louise Phillips 07:11

And if you trip, then great. You're playing someone who falls down all the time. And it ended up being hilarious. Not just me tripping. It was what my scene partner did with it. I wish I could remember what their response was, like we're working at an ice cream shop or something and everything is normal. It was all about me and that that trip and we built on that. That became the thing. If they had blocked me, if they had just pretended it didn't happen, then we wouldn't have had the same scene. We would have had to start over. The audience would have noticed that I tripped. They would have had to reset their brains to be like, I guess that doesn't matter. We're getting past that. Okay, now we're moving on.

And it just wouldn't have been the same. So it's taught me a lot about life. And then on air, it's taught me, oh my God, it's taught me to save myself in moments. It's taught me to view those little failures as moments to see how i can produce something out of that failure. I'm talking a lot but it's because i'm really passionate about this subject. You're sitting around and you're going "oh what's that guy's name what's that guy's name?" and you grab for your phone and you search it. That's you not trusting that your brain will will save you in that moment Like you can probably recall that guy's name.

ModGolfPodcast 08:32

Yes.

Gina Louise Phillips 08:38

It's the pressure of the situation that has stopped you from being able to grab it. And so if you just go, I bet I'm going to remember the name. I'm just going to sit for a second. Oh, of course it was Colin Weston. It's Colin Weston. And if you can relax your brain in moments of stress, your brain will save you.

ModGolfPodcast 08:59

Okay, well, let's then translate and segue that over to the golf course. Are you able to calm and relax your brain when you're playing and when you're out there? Once again, you and I are very average golfers. We hit amazing shots, and I'm sure like me, on the next hole, you'll hit some horrendously bad shots.

Gina Louise Phillips 09:13

Ha yes!

ModGolfPodcast 09:17

So how do you take everything you've learned from improv, which of course is a team sport, or at least you have a partner, as you said, if not more with a troop.

Gina Louise Phillips 09:18

Yeah.

ModGolfPodcast 09:28

And golf is individual for the most part. So how do you take the best things you've learned from improv and apply that to your golf game, even though you and I aren't competitive but still you're out there and you want to do your best and you want to have a good time. So how do you not go into some deep dark place after a quadruple bogey?

Gina Louise Phillips 09:37

Mm-hmm. Oh my gosh. Yeah, I certainly have. It's not like I'm above it, but I think I'm really comfortable failing in front of people. Sometimes that's not a good thing. I have a really good time on the golf course and I've golfed with some really serious people. And honestly, they don't seem annoyed by it, but rising above thinking who cares if I'm bad. It has on one hand freed me up to have a great time regardless, but it also has kept me from sometimes taking it seriously and improving maybe to the level that I could because I'm actually quite shameless.

ModGolfPodcast 10:27

Yes.

Gina Louise Phillips 10:29

I don't get embarrassed anymore. I really don't get embarrassed. I don't know what would what would make me embarrassed anymore. I've done and I've said so many dumb things and I've made so many embarrassing shots. I can imagine what would be embarrassing is if I got really mad. I think that would be embarrassing.

ModGolfPodcast 10:51

Yeah. Yeah.

Gina Louise Phillips 10:53

I also try to reset my mood all the time. So if I've had a bad shot, i go, "well, you know, I get to restart at the next hole." Just because your game is going bad doesn't mean it's predetermined like it's going to end bad. You don't know that it's going to end bad just because it started bad. Actually, the story could be, my god, you you hit the 10th hole and things started getting really, really good.

I mean, imagine that story. Why have we pre-written in our head like, "oh, I just suck today?"

ModGolfPodcast 11:29

Yeah.

Gina Louise Phillips 11:31

Yeah, it's a weird thing.

ModGolfPodcast 11:31

Okay. So you're such a great storyteller that if you can manage to pull this out on the spot and be spontaneous, a little bit of improv here. So can you tell us about two moments in your golf life at either end of the spectrum. I don't know if you've ever had a hole in one but tell us about the most awesome, epic golf shot you ever hit that makes you smile. And also something that was ridiculously embarrassing, but just makes you laugh.

Gina Louise Phillips 12:01

Yeah, i kept completely missing the ball when I swung. I'm not above that. It happens even when I was really improving. I played a lot during the pandemic, especially it in the West. I was living in Calgary at the time. That's where I grew up. We went back to be around my family. So I was golfing all the time and I actually was really improving.

ModGolfPodcast 12:23

Yeah. Yes.

Gina Louise Phillips 12:25

And then I would suddenly just completely whiff a shot and it's, "oh, okay. Yep!" At the family reunion. Okay. So fast forward. I'm playing casual golf, like as a kid, And then I suddenly become host of Score Golf TV. Now, I was not in love with golf at this point. I just want to be clear. I'm a broadcaster who ended up weaselling her way into that gig, not knowing much about golf.

ModGolfPodcast 12:46

Ha yes

Gina Louise Phillips 12:52

But Score Golf kind of wanted that perspective.

ModGolfPodcast 12:53

Love it.

Gina Louise Phillips 12:55

They were not afraid of that. They needed a tv person first. So I ended up in this really serious golf world where people thought I was good at golf just because I was on TSN doing a golf show. So the expectations were suddenly so high and I found that really hard at first. And yeah, so it was the family reunion. And now suddenly I'm entering as the SCORE Golf host and my extended family is like, "geez, where did this come from? Your stories are in the magazine. We see you on TV. You're on all these golf courses."

We go to the golf course. It's like a small course in, It was Radium, British Columbia.

ModGolfPodcast 13:36

Yes.

Gina Louise Phillips 13:37

And the golf course superintendent recognized me. "Oh my gosh, Gina Phillips, Score Golf. She's here!" You know, all all this. And oh my God, I hit the ball, probably 10 feet in front of me, sideways into the bushes.

ModGolfPodcast 13:55

Nice.

Gina Louise Phillips 13:56

And there's just silence. And this guy has come to watch me hit. Just silence. And then I hit another one. Right. But that's a moment where it's like you have to recover. I mean, the story could be, wow, I just suck. And this is my first shot. And now it's going to suck forever. Or, OK, she sucked on that first shot. But like, oh, my God, look at that second shot! So I didn't expect myself to hit well in that second shot, but I managed to clear my brain.

Fresh perspective and see what happened next and i actually hit the ball well. And I then heard him say, "yeah, that's more like it!" And I was like, "yeah!" Little does he know I hit badly all the freaking time! I'm sure in his head, he's going, !oh yeah, the crazy shot she hit into the bushes. I bet that never happens." And instead I'm going, "that mostly does happen!" I managed to hit a really good shot in front of him.

ModGolfPodcast 14:58

That's awesome. Well, you and I are both living testaments that you don't need to be good at golf to talk about golf.

Gina Louise Phillips 15:05

I know. And that became my perspective on the show. I think for the first season I was leaning into studying up on golf. You've got to be this golf presence. You know, you'll learn it. You'll get better. You enjoy golf enough, but you put on a little bit of a facade. And then as time went on and Jason Logan made me feel really comfortable as a co-host. I talk more and more about the journey of being bad at golf and showing up anyway, and then realizing, o"h, that's why a lot of women don't show up on the golf course." They're just like, "no, that's something guys have always done." And that as a result, guys are really, really good.

And you have to be good to even show up. And it's like, "no girl, I show up all the time. I'm terrible. Come with me! It's going to be okay." Yeah.

ModGolfPodcast 15:56

Well, what you touched on is where I want to go with the conversation next, and that is your work with raising awareness for women that golf is accessible. Golf is fun.

Gina Louise Phillips 16:06

Yeah.

ModGolfPodcast 16:06

Golf is awesome. There's community around that. And women are so much better than men as far as building community. Men really struggle with that. I know with myself not playing much golf over the last couple years, even pre-COVID only a couple of times a year. As I mentioned, kind of stumbled into the golf industry, I was never breaking 90. I was booking everything. So my golf friends sucked. It's like, I have to find better golf friends. I don't have the lifestyle or even the disposable income to join some fancy club.

Gina Louise Phillips 16:31

no Yep. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

ModGolfPodcast 16:38

But I found here in Vancouver, the University Golf Club has this weekend men's group that's been going on for 40 years or so, and to your point when i first joined i was really intimidated because i didn't have a handicap and these guys, most of them were really good. Some of them weren't but most of them were had played junior golf, competitive golf, belonging to clubs before. Who knows, maybe they got kicked out with some crazy story i haven't heard yet!

Gina Louise Phillips 17:05

ah

ModGolfPodcast 17:06

When I first played, I was really nervous until I realized very early on, they don't care as long as you're (a) fun to be with (B), you understand the etiquette and the rules for the most part and (c) your pace of play.

Gina Louise Phillips 17:13

Yep. Yep. Uh-huh. Uh-huh.

ModGolfPodcast 17:19

As long as you're not super slow, they're okay with that.

Gina Louise Phillips 17:21

Yeah.

ModGolfPodcast 17:22

Unless you're playing in some death match, head to head, they don't care if you shoot 72 or 112. It doesn't really matter. And it took me a little while to realize that.

Gina Louise Phillips 17:32

Yeah.

ModGolfPodcast 17:32

And then I was able to relax and just and enjoy it. And it sounds like that's what you're doing. And so I'd like to extend that because I know for women, it's even more difficult.

Gina Louise Phillips 17:38

Yeah. Uh-huh.

ModGolfPodcast 17:42

And I've talked about this in the podcast, had the pleasure and honour of speaking to so many amazing women on the podcast who are community building all over well North America and the world. And i see these recurring themes or pain points that I know you're going to touch on here too, with this intimidation factor, not feeling welcome and not getting invited.

Gina Louise Phillips 17:55

Yeah.

ModGolfPodcast 18:05

So why don't you tell me, with the PGA of Canada and the work that you're doing there, both on camera and also writing.

Gina Louise Phillips 18:06

yeah

ModGolfPodcast 18:13

Let's look at through the lens of your personal experience and what you do to encourage and invite more women to play golf.

Gina Louise Phillips 18:23

I think just by showing yourself showing up goes a surprisingly long way.

ModGolfPodcast 18:29

Hmm.

Gina Louise Phillips 18:33

Staying in the golf community, writing about golf, showing yourself golfing on social media. Yeah, I could write about women golfing. And I do that. But there is a showing aspect of like, "whoa that's what Gina wears when she goes. Oh, okay." Women think, "I thought golf clothes were really lame and I was going to buy a whole new wardrobe. I didn't know women could just wear leggings on the golf course!"

ModGolfPodcast 19:00

Right.

Gina Louise Phillips 19:03

Okay. I could do that. The etiquette piece is one of the biggest barriers. And like you're saying, that is very intimidating. I found that more intimidating than the playing, I would say is like, because people care about that. And there's been some really neat programs where you can take women out to play. That's one thing. You can learn the etiquette that way. But there are also seminars that they're starting to do at businesses and corporate events where women can learn the etiquette.

It's like, wow, I would have loved to take that workshop, you know?

ModGolfPodcast 19:37

Yes.

Gina Louise Phillips 19:40

So for me, when I highlight different golf programs that are catering to women are getting people out on the golf course. That's kind of my service, shining a spotlight on those people doing those things. And then myself just showing up and I'm still out there. I'm still working on my game. I'm just having fun with it and showing my friends golf with me. That's kind of cool. Now we've got a bit more of a girl gang in Toronto.

And yeah, I think the more you see someone like you doing it, the more you're going to want to do it.

ModGolfPodcast 20:23

Nice. Nice. So, okay. I want to hear I don't know, day in the life, maybe a a week in the life of Gina Phillips, because between writing and producing on YouTube with Julie Nolke.

Gina Louise Phillips 20:32

Oh man. Yeah.

ModGolfPodcast 20:37

I understand you write and do some work with her, with her sketch comedy.

Gina Louise Phillips 20:37

Right.

ModGolfPodcast 20:42

So you've got a lot of balls in the air and plates spinning.

Gina Louise Phillips 20:45

Yes.

ModGolfPodcast 20:45

So us about a month in the life for you or a week in the life.

Gina Louise Phillips 20:47

It's kind of... Okay.

ModGolfPodcast 20:51

Give us a little snapshot. Because it sounds like, I don't know if you're like me, you spread yourself out and sometimes you need to focus down a little bit. So tell us about your day.

Gina Louise Phillips 20:58

Oh, yeah. That's exactly it. I go from doing 10 different things until one kind of takes control and I go, "okay, I'm going to go over here for a bit", but it's sort of the life as a freelance journalist. That's what I've been doing instead of joining one company. I'm a freelance journalist, so I could get hired by ScoreGolf to write a golf story. i could get hired by the PGA of Canada to do a digital feature.

I could emcee a charity event. I studied news broadcasting. And so that's why I started in news. Then I ended up doing some entertainment and then got into ah being the host of ScoreGolf. And now it's funny, I am back in news. I've been doing some freelancing at CBC Radio, which has been so interesting. After working in TV for so long, I really like radio. It feels agile. It's the same reason we like podcasting. It just feels there's some there's a simplicity to it

ModGolfPodcast 22:03

Yeah, yeah.

Gina Louise Phillips 22:03

So I've been freelancing at CBC Radio and doing sketch comedy with friends i and writing when I can. And I've been doing a lot of creative writing as well because I love writing and I keep going, "Gina, you've got to work on your own projects instead of just waiting to get hired."

ModGolfPodcast 22:21

Now, speaking of your own writing, you and I talked about this last week when we were on a call, and I strongly encouraged you to to put this out into the universe to see what happens. And we're going there right now. And that is, you are writing, I believe you have the pilot written, maybe a couple of episodes already, but you're looking to create a comedy podcast. A sitcom that revolves around a golf course and a family. And so what can you tell us about that?

Gina Louise Phillips 22:48

okay

ModGolfPodcast 22:49

Because, hey, this is the first time we're going to put it out there to the world.

Gina Louise Phillips 22:50

ah

ModGolfPodcast 22:52

This is still early stages, but go for it.

Gina Louise Phillips 22:52

oh Yeah, it is.

ModGolfPodcast 22:56

What's going on?

Gina Louise Phillips 22:56

Well, it's kind of like you're saying with like, "Gina, you seem like you do all these things". And yeah, I do 10 different things. How can I combine them? Okay, so I do sketches with Julie Nolke, right? That's comedy. We write that. She's also my golf buddy. And when we did the piece with PGA of Canada, she did that with me.

ModGolfPodcast 23:12

Oh, there you go

Gina Louise Phillips 23:16

And it was at an all-female golf course. And I'm just starting to put these pieces together of like, okay, well, you know what Canada needs is a scripted comedy series about golf. I mean, golf is hilarious. There's so many comedic things about it. I want to create TV show about these characters, about these women that are speaking of like, just show people doing the things. Well, Julie and I are already out there golfing.

So let's make a comedy around that. So yeah, I've written the pilot for a series called Squat Valley Golf. And Squat Valley is a fictional place in the Alberta Rocky Mountain, kind of like in the foothills. And you see the mountains in the background. So it's about a little mountain course. It's total crap. You put money in ah a tin can instead of a front desk.

ModGolfPodcast 24:13

Right.

Gina Louise Phillips 24:14

It's that sort of vibe. And this place, the main character grew up playing there was her home course and it's completely gone downhill. She makes the choice with her father and her arch nemesis from her former competitive golf life, the three of them end up creating a place and lifting this course out of the ashes and making it a place where people want to golf and people of all walks of life as well.

ModGolfPodcast 24:51

I love this. I love this. Do I take it that both you and Julie are going to be starring in this? Are you going to be arch nemesis?

Gina Louise Phillips 24:58

Maybe.

ModGolfPodcast 25:00

Nemesai? Nemesisis?

Gina Louise Phillips 25:02

Nemesai, I think they start out, they start out, I like Nemesai.

ModGolfPodcast 25:03

What's the right term there?

Gina Louise Phillips 25:07

Let's go with that. They start out as Nemesai and then they... See, it works. And then they end up working together. I don't want these women to be against each other. I just think that they tug at the insecurities of one another in an interesting way. They're complex and interesting, just like so many of us. So yeah. yeah, I, I'm excited about it. And I think it would be really neat to get the golf community involved. I have a lot of connections that I've made over the years and think they'd be excited about this show.

ModGolfPodcast 25:40

Yes.

Gina Louise Phillips 25:45

I think we can all work together somehow to make this happen.

ModGolfPodcast 25:50

So you would know better than I, because I'm sure you've done all the research and the background and on this, but I don't think there's ever been a golf centric, comedy show. I know with Curb Your Enthusiasm with Larry David i haven't watched too many episodes but i know he's on the golf course doing things with his buddies every once in a while with Vince Vaughn and others, but otherwise i don't think there's any show that's been centreed around golf or a golf course has there?

Gina Louise Phillips 26:14

No, no, I don't think there's been a TV series about it. There's certainly been movies. And I think just recently there is a movie, maybe Will Ferrell or someone was in it, but I think it's a good time for it because golf is kind of cool.

ModGolfPodcast 26:19

yeah

Gina Louise Phillips 26:30

All a sudden, like, do you sense that switch that's been happening? There's a lot of golf influencers there. It's definitely had a moment after COVID or during COVID where people were getting out and playing and it's become more of a regular thing.

ModGolfPodcast 26:47

It certainly has. And said I've been in the golf venture, golf entertainment industry for almost a dozen years now with a podcast and YouTube channel for more than eight. So yes, back in the early days, golf was like one of those, it's almost like that person that's trying to be really cool.

Gina Louise Phillips 27:04

Yes.

ModGolfPodcast 27:04

They're trying so hard to let everybody know they're cool. And that always backfires because if you're if you're trying to be cool, guess what? You're not cool, right?

Gina Louise Phillips 27:11

I know. It's not happening.

ModGolfPodcast 27:12

But now it just seems to be taking this natural life force on with certain people, whether it's the Steph Curry's of the world and just other things that are going on.

Gina Louise Phillips 27:19

Yes.

ModGolfPodcast 27:21

A lot of YouTube golf channels.

Gina Louise Phillips 27:23

Yep. The TGL.

ModGolfPodcast 27:24

YouTube personalities now that are making it cool.

Gina Louise Phillips 27:24

Yeah.

ModGolfPodcast 27:26

I know with Tiger and Rory and TGL, what they're doing, their indoor venue there, they're trying to make that cool.

Gina Louise Phillips 27:27

Yeah.

ModGolfPodcast 27:33

But right now it's just not kind of cool because these guys, they don't have that comedic banter. They're trying real hard, but I think we need, this is my take on this and they're probably already there. I think for the next season, rather than having four professional golf dudes on there, they need maybe one, maybe have Tiger and then they need an LPGA player.

Gina Louise Phillips 27:44

Yeah.

ModGolfPodcast 27:51

And then they need one YouTube golf influencer. And then they need like a world poker qualifier.

Gina Louise Phillips 27:56

Like a celebrity.

ModGolfPodcast 27:58

You need the random person that was trying not to poop their pants while they're on the tee next to Tiger.

Gina Louise Phillips 27:59

yeah. yeah

ModGolfPodcast 28:05

Like you and I, just having some random person on there.

Gina Louise Phillips 28:08

Totally.

ModGolfPodcast 28:08

I think that would write itself that would be amazing and to be able to do that and then you can qualify like American Ninja Warrior to be that fourth person on the team which would be freaking awesome! So I think it still has some ways to go, it's not quite cool yet but I agree with you that golf's becoming more cool on its own.

Gina Louise Phillips 28:13

Yeah. Oh, that's so good. I really tried to fit into golf for a while. I think it's just partly age as well, you're just like, "oh, no, what I bring is just the, it's the thing." Like, I can't. It becomes your suit, your superpower, right? Until I went, "oh, yeah, I am a woman and that's actually going to give me an edge because I get invited on panels to be the woman talking about golf."

ModGolfPodcast 28:55

Yeah, yeah.

Gina Louise Phillips 29:01

And golf is one of the few remaining places where being a woman is kind of a card. Yeah. There's been a lot of equality that that has happened where it's like, no, being a woman isn't an unusual thing anymore in some of these spaces. And in golf, it still kind of is. And I'm like, "wow, it's so weird that I'm the one of the few golf journalists in the country." I mean, I don't know what that says. It's strange. It's like stuck in time, but also it's not because it exists online in such a strong way and a really fun, interesting women are golfing, but they're not going to the traditional outlets to try to do it or write about it or show themselves doing it. Whereas I'm like an old school journalist. I've been in media for two decades now, long time.

ModGolfPodcast 29:55

Mm-hmm.

Gina Louise Phillips 29:56

And I'm looking around at the same crew of media, guys doing the hiring and I'm like, "come on, like hire me!" and it does, take it takes a while just to be like, "Oh no. Okay. Okay. That is my network." But I also have this comedy network. I do know influencers. I do know actors. That is my world where I can golf and maybe this world, this more old school golf journalism world would be excited about it because they're supportive. You have to flow with where the opportunities are.

ModGolfPodcast 30:41

Yeah, yeah. And where the energy takes you.

Gina Louise Phillips 30:42

Yeah.

ModGolfPodcast 30:43

I love what you said there. And this applies to entrepreneurs, founders, whether you're starting a business that's based on a product or experience, or if you're creating content and in the writing and entertainment space like like yourself.

Gina Louise Phillips 30:54

Hmm.

ModGolfPodcast 30:58

Focus on the strengths that you have and that network that you've built up and the trust that you've cultivated over time. And that is part of your superpower. And I don't know if you're like me, but sometimes you forget about that or you take it for granted. You don't leverage, it's not a disingenuous way of using it, but you're not tapping into that network and people want to help you.

Gina Louise Phillips 31:10

yeah yeah yeah it's so true yeah yeah

ModGolfPodcast 31:23

You don't realize that sometimes. I don't know if you experienced this, I've suffered from that in the past, which I've now gotten over. I'll just put it out there where it's like, "oh, I don't want to inconvenience someone. I don't know if that's the right time to ask" and I'm always putting up these self-imposed barriers rather than, "you know what, let's put it out there. Let's tap into these people. I know them. They're my friends, a lot of them. And let's make something awesome together." And it sounds like you're embracing that now.

Gina Louise Phillips 31:45

Yeah. Yeah, that is what embracing, but also realizing people don't know what to do with me. And it's not up to them to know. Like if they don't have the hiring ability or the money, whatever it is, to bring in a bit of a wild card.

ModGolfPodcast 31:57

Yes.

Gina Louise Phillips 32:09

Like they're just not, Canada is not going to do things, the people in power aren't going to pluck me out to do the things that I want to do.

ModGolfPodcast 32:24

yes

Gina Louise Phillips 32:24

You do have to push and it is that entrepreneurial spirit of, I just have to believe in myself. These people believe in me, but they don't, they're not gonna take those risks that I want them to take in order for me to do the thing I wanna do. So I've gotta just do the thing and then try to sell that thing. I don't know. It's complicated. It feels complicated because I do ask people for favours all the time. I do reach out to people. I'm networking.

And I think it's realizing those people want to support and they want to stay in touch. They just don't know what I need.

ModGolfPodcast 33:05

Okay, let's focus this down then. And I'm going to get back to your awesome pilot here. We're going to manifest this. This is going to happen.

Gina Louise Phillips 33:12

okay

ModGolfPodcast 33:12

So let's hyper-focus this down. What are the next steps? What are the next things you need, resources, connectivity, to get it from where it is now to get to that next step?

Gina Louise Phillips 33:16

Okay.

ModGolfPodcast 33:20

What do you need to put it out there to the universe for anybody listening that perhaps can help?

Gina Louise Phillips 33:26

Okay, the most obvious one is that a head of a production company hears the idea and goes, "let's pitch this together a network."

ModGolfPodcast 33:37

Right.

Gina Louise Phillips 33:38

So that's often what happens. I've pitched show ideas before. You end up with a shopping agreement with a production company. That production company then goes, okay, this is now our project. It's not just a Gina project.

ModGolfPodcast 33:50

right

Gina Louise Phillips 33:50

And it's got to be someone that I align with, all of that. And then we pitch it together. And then hopefully that production company is powerful enough. They have the connections. Now, golf is interesting, right? Because it's like, wait, could we get it sponsored? A big company, TaylorMade, one of those companies goes, okay, what if we make it a sneaky sponsorship or really out loud sponsorship of, "we'll pay to make this". You find the people and we make this as a series.

And then you end up going to a network, a broadcaster and we go, we already have the funding to do this. You don't have to pay for it. It's essentially, you're just getting it put on. That's another way to do this. I think. Yeah. So there are some interesting things where then you rely on the golf community to be like, "great, can we write about this? Let's do a piece on it. Let's do a feature on a behind the scenes of making the show". There's lots of media coverage that I hopefully will be able to leverage when it gets to that point, which would be exciting.

ModGolfPodcast 35:05

Nice. I remember back in the day, because you and I had talked about up here, we're in Canada, a lot of our listeners are in the US, but in Canada, there's with a couple of shows that have become quite popular, even though they're a bit niche-y, but very popular. That's with Shoresy, and then before that with LetterKenny.

Gina Louise Phillips 35:22

Oh, yeah.

ModGolfPodcast 35:23

So, and my understanding is the way that those shows were created is they just created these, basically they're social media posts. They created these comedy bits that were two minutes long that became pieces of the original show or where Letterkenny ended up going to.

Gina Louise Phillips 35:34

Right.

ModGolfPodcast 35:41

And from that, that gave them that that ability to take it to the next level.

Gina Louise Phillips 35:41

Mm-hmm.

ModGolfPodcast 35:46

Is that something that you've thought about, perhaps doing a couple of scenes from your show and what you consider right now the the best nuggets and put that out there to see where it goes?

Gina Louise Phillips 35:49

Yep. Mm-hmm.

ModGolfPodcast 35:56

Or is that not a strategy you're looking at?

Gina Louise Phillips 35:59

It's, it's okay. Okay. Because I think I come from, and again, I need to break out of this mold. So I appreciate this conversation because great freaking point. Because I have an agent, I tend to go about the traditional pitching routes, but again, that's relying on the same person.

ModGolfPodcast 36:15

Right?

Gina Louise Phillips 36:19

Processes that I've tried to rely on this whole time. So if we are breaking out of it, yeah, I mean, Julie and I could start filming, we know really talented people to film these sorts of things. You end up, um yeah, exactly, filming sketches or filming scenes. You create an online presence and maybe you start telling the story through, like so I've thought about this, like through like a bunch of Instagram reels, so right? Or TikToks.

I mean, if you watch them in sequence, it would be like watching a show, right? Could you do scenes like that? I think that would be so fun. I think it takes a lot of time and resources. You want to get paid for something like that.

ModGolfPodcast 37:00

Well,

Gina Louise Phillips 37:03

And then maybe that's where the sponsors come in, where you knock on the door of these golf companies and go, "we're thinking about this online series". And then it's not about putting it on a big broadcaster. That's not an expectation. Instead, you just go, "no we're going to control this from the ground up". I actually really like that idea, Colin.

ModGolfPodcast 37:22

well it's interesting the trajectory of... of online, especially on TikTok and Instagram and also YouTube.

Gina Louise Phillips 37:30

Yeah.

ModGolfPodcast 37:31

There's lots of, or quite a few golf content creators that focus on the comedy piece. And I got to admit, some of them are not that great.

Gina Louise Phillips 37:38

Yes.

ModGolfPodcast 37:40

I'm sure you as a writer probably look and say, :ah that's not that great", but they're still getting some traction.

Gina Louise Phillips 37:41

I know. Yeah.

ModGolfPodcast 37:47

But the one I really love, I'm sure you know them, is with St. Andre Golf and what the the the three or four of them

Gina Louise Phillips 37:52

Oh, yes. Yes.

ModGolfPodcast 37:53

do. Their background also is in writing and comedy just like yourself so they've got the pedigree and the ability to do it and now that's taken off for them. They actually got a deal with Bridgestone Golf and they've done things with collaborations with Freddie Couples and Tiger. They were just over in Dubai as part of the DP World Tour doing this three-day shoot. They did this real funny one, I forget the name of the woman that is part of the the troupe there.

Gina Louise Phillips 37:53

They're so good. Yeah. Yeah. They do. Oh, cool. Oh my God. Yeah, I forget her name too. She's so good. Oh.

ModGolfPodcast 38:19

She's hilarious. And she did this piece. She was doing social media training, influencer training for the members of the tour.

Gina Louise Phillips 38:25

Oh

ModGolfPodcast 38:28

And it was all deadpan. It was hilarious. Did you see that one? It was really well done.

Gina Louise Phillips 38:30

No.

ModGolfPodcast 38:31

And the budget on that was big. They did it behind the scenes and they did like a four day shoot with a full crew.

Gina Louise Phillips 38:34

Yeah. Wow.

ModGolfPodcast 38:36

So that's kind of where they've taken it. So I'm just wondering, and know it takes time and resources. So I'm not trying to put more on your plate here, but maybe that's the way to go.

Gina Louise Phillips 38:44

Yeah. You don't want to do it half-assed, right? When you see what goes on so the behind the scenes of with them, you're like, wow, it was a four-day shoot!

ModGolfPodcast 38:52

True.

Gina Louise Phillips 39:00

They had these sound people. They had these amazing cameras. The better it looks. You don't want to create something crappy, even though your performance could be good. It's going to look rookie. So my standards, keep me from sometimes doing things like that. And that's why I've always really liked working with Julie because her standards are so high and like her, the quality of her content is very good.

It looks good, which is important on social media.

ModGolfPodcast 39:31

Yes, yes. Well, I think there's pieces you can extract out of what but what Julie does and others do to make that happen.

Gina Louise Phillips 39:37

Yeah. I think so.

ModGolfPodcast 39:40

So I am gathering here you're a recovering perfectionist by any chance?

Gina Louise Phillips 39:46

No, no.

ModGolfPodcast 39:48

Are you sure? I got to hook you up on a lie detector test. I think you would have failed miserably there. See, I grew up as a procrastinator crossed with a perfectionist.

Gina Louise Phillips 39:54

It's so true. Yes.

ModGolfPodcast 40:01

So those two, it's it was the worst.

Gina Louise Phillips 40:02

Yes.

ModGolfPodcast 40:03

And entrepreneurship taught me actually, you know what, does just ship it, just get it out there.

Gina Louise Phillips 40:03

Because it keeps.

ModGolfPodcast 40:08

Yes, I want the quality just like I do with the podcast and everything on YouTube here to the best of my ability and that the details are important, but in some cases, just get it out there.

Gina Louise Phillips 40:18

Thank you. I think it's a really good point. I think procrastination comes from wanting to do it so well that you hold off entirely. And you're like, yeah if I can't do it at a 10, then I'm not going to do it at all. And it's ah it is a funny mix. Like I do the exact same thing, Colin. I also think another thing that has held me back is thinking things are going to happen, relying on people or companies, and it falls through. And I am left going, wow, that was my golf season that I was going to film my own stuff. And then I had so many of these conversations of like, we might do this. We're thinking of you for this. You're auditioning for that and stuff.

Honestly, I could probably say 90% of the stuff that I was working on did not come to fruition. And it's really frustrating putting your future into other people's hands and really trusting that those conversations that you had, that you walked away feeling so good about and so hopeful about probably won't go through. And it sounds negative, but it's actually been a big relief to give up hope in a lot of those companies and opportunities because it's freed me up.

ModGolfPodcast 41:28

You're right.

Gina Louise Phillips 41:37

And now I feel the creative writing is a perfect example of that without with taking away that reliance from those companies I've freelanced for, for so long. Now I'm finally starting to do the things that I really want to do anyway.

ModGolfPodcast 41:56

Now, I got to reframe what you said there without trying to mansplain this, but in my mind, what you said it kind of made me sad.

Gina Louise Phillips 41:59

Okay.

ModGolfPodcast 42:02

You said you're giving up hope. that That sounded so sad.

Gina Louise Phillips 42:05

I know.

ModGolfPodcast 42:06

Rather than saying giving up hope, it could be, and I find this in golf also.

Gina Louise Phillips 42:06

There's gotta be a different.

ModGolfPodcast 42:10

We'll always bring the parallels back to golf.

Gina Louise Phillips 42:11

Yeah. Yeah.

ModGolfPodcast 42:12

It's not being results-driven or setting these expectations of today I'm going to shoot this score.

Gina Louise Phillips 42:17

I like that. Yeah.

ModGolfPodcast 42:19

I'm creating this content, this thing or this venture and it's going to be this. I know when I started with a podcast, well, first I didn't know how to make a podcast or what the hell I was doing and had no expectations where I was going to be eight years later. I don't want to get into the trope of it's all about the process...

Gina Louise Phillips 42:32

Yeah. That's so cool.

ModGolfPodcast 42:40

but ultimately, I think you're seeing this too, as you move through life and other opportunities present themselves and all these stones are laid out in front of you and you turn them over to see what's underneath. And sometimes you decide not to turn that stone over and just leave that one be.

Gina Louise Phillips 42:54

Yes!

ModGolfPodcast 42:55

So rather than giving up hope, I think it's just about not focusing so much on the results.

Gina Louise Phillips 42:58

Oh

ModGolfPodcast 43:02

But with you, it seems like, yeah, you're just super optimistic of where things are going to go. And we don't know where that's going to be right now, just like with our golf games.

Gina Louise Phillips 43:08

ah yeah

ModGolfPodcast 43:11

And that's okay.

Gina Louise Phillips 43:12

I've always been really excited about what comes next. and sometimes I create thousand different "this might happen" scenarios.

ModGolfPodcast 43:17

Mm-hmm.

Gina Louise Phillips 43:24

And then a lot of them don't happen. And I just go, "whoa", instead of doing the thing, I set myself up and to try to do the thing over and over and over again. Does that make sense? It's almost not results driven.

ModGolfPodcast 43:40

It does.

Gina Louise Phillips 43:42

It's more about creating opportunities. And the focus is on the creating of opportunities instead of doing something directly.

ModGolfPodcast 43:53

i love that. I love that. So how does that equate?

Gina Louise Phillips 43:56

don't know. It's funny.

ModGolfPodcast 43:59

I know I'm hammering on this to bring it back to golf because we're both golf nerds without being really good at golf.

Gina Louise Phillips 44:03

Exactly.

ModGolfPodcast 44:05

It's frustrating for both of us. We talked about it because our golf IQ being around all these amazing people. Our golf IQ is very high, but we just aren't able to execute, which is frustrating.

Gina Louise Phillips 44:12

Oh my God. I know.

ModGolfPodcast 44:17

So when you go out on the course, what are your expectations?

Gina Louise Phillips 44:18

Yeah.

ModGolfPodcast 44:20

What is a perfect golf day for you? What does that look like?

Gina Louise Phillips 44:28

Yeah, what's a perfect golf day? I'm really about who you go with. Are you having a good time? And are you having great conversations? Is there a flow to it? It can be hard when one person's never ready and kind of out of it. And then I'm glad I'm over that hump of it. I know how to be ready.

ModGolfPodcast 44:51

Right.

Gina Louise Phillips 44:52

It's like I've become a better person to play with, certainly. But yeah, oh that's so interesting. What is my ideal golf day? I mean, I love being outside. Like the more nature-y and forest-y a course is, the better for me. I love a pristine course.

ModGolfPodcast 45:13

Yes.

Gina Louise Phillips 45:15

I appreciate it. But I would choose sticks and pine trees and bush over like a perfect, fake waterfall.

ModGolfPodcast 45:31

Right, right.

Gina Louise Phillips 45:31

Does that make sense? Like I'm nature.

ModGolfPodcast 45:32

Yeah.

Gina Louise Phillips 45:33

I'm an outdoor person. I love being outside. I love being in nature. So mountain courses to me are ideal. But Ontario has some incredible courses as well.

ModGolfPodcast 45:45

So one thing I've started or stopped doing is keeping score every once in a while. It's not about a handicap and doing that.

Gina Louise Phillips 45:51

Me too.

ModGolfPodcast 45:52

So in a couple months time in May, I've been invited to speak at a golf business conference in Ireland.

Gina Louise Phillips 45:53

Mm-hmm.

ModGolfPodcast 45:58

The first time I'm going there and I've been invited to play some amazing courses with my, like i said, my mid handicap.

Gina Louise Phillips 46:02

Oh, cool.

ModGolfPodcast 46:06

I have the whole imposter syndrome going on. Should I even play or it's going to be really hard?

Gina Louise Phillips 46:10

Right.

ModGolfPodcast 46:10

But even there, I've talked to some people. It's like, "you know what? We're not even going to keep score, let's just have some fun". So if I get out there and shoot 113, because it's so windy and I don't know how to play links courses.

Gina Louise Phillips 46:16

I love that. Yeah?

ModGolfPodcast 46:20

Yeah. and I lose a dozen or so balls. It doesn't really matter. So I've kind of reframed my mindset about what that experience would be. I'm not going there saying my great experience would be playing on those Irish courses and Scottish courses and breaking 85 on one course or whatever that is.

Gina Louise Phillips 46:37

Wow.

ModGolfPodcast 46:41

I'm not even doing that with a number.

Gina Louise Phillips 46:43

Great.

ModGolfPodcast 46:43

It's just about the experience that I'm going to walk away with, just the sights and the sounds and the smells and the people that I'm around.

Gina Louise Phillips 46:46

Yeah. Yeah, I love not keeping score as well. I started doing that it will last all golf season because I was so much worse than I was during the pandemic. And i'm like, what happened? But I think it is okay. But, you know, perfectionist, I've i stopped applying that to golf entirely. So I take an improv mindset. It's all about fun. It's all about like what happens next.

ModGolfPodcast 47:15

Yep.

Gina Louise Phillips 47:15

I can do that with golf because I really put it there in my brain but I have not done that with my career. So I think that those are two different things like playing golf versus what I do with golf? In terms of writing, in terms of covering stories that I'm more of a perfectionist with for sure.

ModGolfPodcast 47:36

Nice. Nice. Well, Hey, I'm going to be in Toronto after, well, I grew up in Toronto, so I'll be back there seeing some family after I come back from Ireland in the end of May.

Gina Louise Phillips 47:42

Awesome.

ModGolfPodcast 47:46

I'll be there for a week or so. Perhaps if you're around and have some time, maybe we should get together and play some golf.

Gina Louise Phillips 47:49

Yes.

ModGolfPodcast 47:51

Maybe we should shoot a video. Maybe we'll shoot a pilot for your show. Maybe I can be the middle-aged downtrodden character.

Gina Louise Phillips 47:54

Okay, wait, what? Are you my nemeside?

ModGolfPodcast 47:58

Oh, maybe I could be your dad or something. I don't know Maybe, can you cast me?

Gina Louise Phillips 48:00

Oh my God, you're right.

ModGolfPodcast 48:03

Can we do that? Do I have what it takes?

Gina Louise Phillips 48:05

Have you ever acted? What?

ModGolfPodcast 48:06

Well, not really. Well, I was Santa Claus in my grade four play and I did that.

Gina Louise Phillips 48:11

What?

ModGolfPodcast 48:13

But no, my background is, I'm an architect pretending to be a podcaster here. So formally, have I formally acted before, no.

Gina Louise Phillips 48:18

Oh my God.

ModGolfPodcast 48:22

But I've been from in front of a camera.

Gina Louise Phillips 48:23

Well, we'll see.

ModGolfPodcast 48:24

I don't know.

Gina Louise Phillips 48:25

We'll see. You're definitely in front of the camera a lot.

ModGolfPodcast 48:26

There we go.

Gina Louise Phillips 48:28

So who knows? That would be really fun.

ModGolfPodcast 48:30

Maybe my ignorance will be my superpower. You never know.

Gina Louise Phillips 48:34

Exactly. That happens with actors all the time because actors get really in their head and sometimes they're worse for it.

ModGolfPodcast 48:39

Yeah. So I have, I have zero scar tissue.

Gina Louise Phillips 48:40

I've been like that.

ModGolfPodcast 48:41

I have scar tissue in a lot of other areas of my life, but not in that. So we can make something happen.

Gina Louise Phillips 48:45

I like it.

ModGolfPodcast 48:48

So, you know what? I have so many more questions I want to ask you, but you and I now are going to jump over to a video call for our ModGolf YouTube channel.

Gina Louise Phillips 48:54

Great.

ModGolfPodcast 48:56

So I'm going ask you, I have got a whole bunch of other questions that I've got queued up here.

Gina Louise Phillips 48:56

Love it. Oh boy.

ModGolfPodcast 49:00

Want to talk more about the work you do to grow the game in women's golf and I know you've got some um some very strong takes on that. I'll let you share is as deep as you want to go on that but why don't we hold off on that for now and just finish up so i know you're not out there selling anything, but hey if anybody wants to connect with you and who knows maybe they're the one that's going to make this pilot take off and and partner with you how can people get a hold of you Gina?

Gina Louise Phillips 49:22

Yes. Awesome. Well, I love connecting with people on Instagram. It's the social media platform that I use the most. I'm Gina Louise Phillips on there.

ModGolfPodcast 49:36

Mm-hmm.

Gina Louise Phillips 49:38

But hey, yeah, I'm on LinkedIn.

ModGolfPodcast 49:47

I'll tell you what. We'll keep it nice and simple here as I always do in the show notes for the episode. And I'll of course have your bio page up. I will include both the the contacts and the links for your Instagram and also for LinkedIn.

Gina Louise Phillips 49:53

That's great.

ModGolfPodcast 49:59

So it's nice and easy for people to reach out and connect with you.

Gina Louise Phillips 50:01

Perfect. love it.

ModGolfPodcast 50:05

So with that, Gina Phillips, love your energy. Love the conversation.

Gina Louise Phillips 50:09

Thanks, Colin.

ModGolfPodcast 50:09

We can keep going forever here, but let's keep it to that and jump over to YouTube.

Gina Louise Phillips 50:11

Totally.

ModGolfPodcast 50:14

So, hey, again, Thanks so much for joining me on the ModGolf Podcast today. I've absolutely loved our conversation.

Gina Louise Phillips 50:18

Yeah. Thanks so much for having me, Colin. This has been great. You've given me a lot of ideas.

ModGolfPodcast 50:24

Here we go. Free of charge. Or are they? Who knows? We'll see.